Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!news-out.readnews.com!transit3.readnews.com!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Lew Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help Subject: Re: Free computer books Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 17:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 43 Message-ID: <20375244.81.1318034305724.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcs9> References: <14364120.423.1317908234244.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmi2> <3hfu87191n79gc4q1n2c32opqpmb92klrl@4ax.com> Reply-To: comp.lang.java.help@googlegroups.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.50.220.231 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1318036956 7555 127.0.0.1 (8 Oct 2011 01:22:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 01:22:36 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <3hfu87191n79gc4q1n2c32opqpmb92klrl@4ax.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=65.50.220.231; posting-account=CP-lKQoAAAAGtB5diOuGlDQk0jIwmH0T User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-Google-Web-Client: true Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.help:1203 Roedy Green wrote: > Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said : > >The problem isn't its lack of coverage, the problem is the part that isn= 't "most of Java"=20 > will be wrong, misleading and conducive to bad programming in the > post-5 world. >=20 > I think if you were teaching, you would do collections without > generics, then add the complication of the genericity. > So long as you don't STOP, Well, not me personally. You might be right about the generalized "you", b= ut what you suggest is not consistent with my pedagogical style. > Perhaps I should put some notes in the front of each book about what > is obsolete and incomplete. I suppose it's better to put lipstick on a pig than to kiss its unadorned m= outh. I am seriously worried about the effect of out-of-date training materials o= n new programmers. I've seen so much evidence that bad habits from early t= exts infect a programmer for years, even decades. I really don't think pre= -Java 5 texts do a new programmer any favors. I was also serious about the jibe about you being a champion of newbies. I= strongly suggest that these out-of-date texts, particularly if they promot= e things that were out of date even 7 or 8 years ago as many did, do more h= arm than good to new programmers. We should put effort into materials that= will *properly* train new programmers (and weed out the incompetents), not= ones that infect them out of some misguided attempt to be soft or somethin= g. It really does a lot of harm to teach people wrong under the guise of "simp= lifying". So don't do that. --=20 Lew --=20 Lew