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Groups > comp.lang.c > #20055 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-04-29 17:17 +0100 |
| Last post | 2012-05-03 12:37 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 253 — 38 participants |
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How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-29 17:17 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-29 18:44 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-29 22:20 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-29 15:32 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-30 00:37 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-29 18:30 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 13:43 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-04-29 23:45 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-29 22:12 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-30 13:06 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 08:36 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 00:17 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 01:05 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-01 07:36 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 13:39 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-01 23:06 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 18:11 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 21:36 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-01 00:24 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-04-30 17:08 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 19:15 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-05-01 03:06 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 21:18 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-01 12:14 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 16:53 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 22:17 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 17:24 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 22:44 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-01 12:18 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-04-29 11:10 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-04-29 18:27 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-30 13:54 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-04-29 22:07 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-04-29 22:23 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-04-30 00:41 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-04-30 07:30 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-04-30 16:29 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-04-29 22:26 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-29 21:27 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-04-30 08:49 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-04-30 00:42 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-04-30 19:40 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-05-25 10:38 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-27 10:22 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? FireXware <none@none.invalid> - 2012-04-29 14:29 -0600
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-29 17:18 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 10:56 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 08:04 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-29 16:37 -0500
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2012-04-29 22:43 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-04-30 06:41 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-30 01:33 -0500
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-04-30 07:26 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-04-30 13:30 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 11:44 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 22:25 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 18:23 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 06:18 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-05-02 20:25 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-03 01:10 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-03 20:34 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-04-30 01:01 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-04-30 10:08 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-04-30 08:22 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-04-30 12:09 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-05-01 00:23 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-03 01:40 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-05-02 20:15 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-30 17:17 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-04-30 12:44 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-04-30 16:28 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-04-30 23:50 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 13:52 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 13:44 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-05-01 08:34 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 21:22 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-03 01:14 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-03 12:35 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-05-04 00:44 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Leo Havmøller <rtxleh@nospam.nospam> - 2012-04-30 13:39 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 11:15 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? tom st denis <tom@iahu.ca> - 2012-05-01 06:15 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2012-04-30 12:11 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 21:29 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-04-30 16:43 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 10:31 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 03:11 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 12:32 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? tom st denis <tom@iahu.ca> - 2012-05-01 06:06 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 14:11 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? tom st denis <tom@iahu.ca> - 2012-05-01 06:29 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 13:24 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 16:22 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 06:44 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 13:22 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-05-02 21:33 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-02 17:59 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-02 22:16 -0500
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-03 10:13 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-03 13:05 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-01 23:36 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-03 02:40 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-02 01:37 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2012-05-02 16:41 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-03 02:54 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-03 12:18 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-05-02 20:27 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-02 01:22 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2012-05-04 00:41 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2012-05-04 08:41 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Michael Angelo Ravera <maravera@prodigy.net> - 2012-05-07 01:11 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-07 07:18 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-05-07 05:41 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-07 09:24 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-07 09:31 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-05-10 15:37 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-04 08:16 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-04 09:49 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-04-30 14:25 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-04-30 22:19 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-04-30 14:04 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-01 00:33 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-04-30 15:43 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 10:17 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 10:15 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-01 07:12 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-05-01 10:41 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-01 17:39 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-01 12:46 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-30 21:41 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 00:22 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-01 15:53 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2012-05-09 21:06 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-10 00:32 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-10 10:35 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-09 16:18 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2012-05-10 02:45 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-10 16:18 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-11 03:21 -0500
Re: How would you design C's replacement? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2012-05-11 15:55 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-13 17:39 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-05-14 00:08 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-13 21:24 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Marco <prenom_nomus@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 06:50 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-10 00:08 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-05-10 04:04 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-10 10:38 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-10 11:15 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-11 08:36 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-11 17:49 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-11 09:34 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-11 09:41 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-11 19:42 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-11 10:50 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-11 20:16 +0200
Trigraphs (was Re: How would you design C's replacement?) Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-14 11:49 -0400
Re: Trigraphs (was Re: How would you design C's replacement?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-14 12:21 -0400
Re: Trigraphs Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-14 09:50 -0700
Re: Trigraphs James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-14 13:05 -0400
Re: Trigraphs Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-14 10:24 -0700
Re: Trigraphs Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-14 11:56 -0700
Re: Trigraphs jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-14 21:00 +0200
Re: Trigraphs Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-14 16:37 -0500
Re: Trigraphs James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-14 17:58 -0400
Re: Trigraphs Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-14 21:05 -0700
Re: Trigraphs Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-17 13:19 -0700
Re: Trigraphs Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-17 13:05 -0700
Re: Trigraphs jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-05-17 22:04 +0000
Re: Trigraphs Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-05-14 16:22 -0400
Re: Trigraphs "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-14 22:05 +0100
Re: Trigraphs Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2012-05-14 22:31 -0400
Re: Trigraphs Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-14 21:17 -0700
Re: Trigraphs Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-17 13:42 -0700
Re: Trigraphs Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-14 13:33 -0700
Re: Trigraphs Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-14 23:02 +0200
Re: Trigraphs James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-14 17:35 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-11 18:49 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-05-11 18:49 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-11 20:14 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-11 18:56 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-10 11:31 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-11 08:38 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Pfaff <blp@cs.stanford.edu> - 2012-05-11 09:36 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-11 19:12 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-14 11:56 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-05-14 11:34 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-05-10 20:05 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-05-11 06:19 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 10:33 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-04-30 22:38 +0000
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 17:43 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-01 09:39 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 20:21 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-01 10:39 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 20:47 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-01 08:10 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-01 14:37 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-01 08:17 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-01 07:48 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 13:32 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-01 23:07 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-02 18:02 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-02 14:40 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-02 10:35 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-02 16:51 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-02 11:44 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-02 17:23 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-05-03 12:14 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Jens Gustedt <jens.gustedt@loria.fr> - 2012-05-03 13:38 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-03 07:28 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 13:28 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-03 18:44 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-05-03 00:56 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-05-02 16:04 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-01 17:14 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 16:10 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-02 17:52 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-02 02:37 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-02 07:29 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 12:19 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Lanarcam <lanarcam1@yahoo.fr> - 2012-05-01 18:02 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 13:43 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Lanarcam <lanarcam1@yahoo.fr> - 2012-05-01 22:52 +0200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-01 16:12 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-01 20:59 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-02 02:09 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-03 12:08 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-03 16:05 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-02 02:04 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-02 10:36 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-02 07:36 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 16:21 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-03 12:26 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-03 16:08 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 16:16 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2012-05-02 19:46 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-02 12:12 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-02 20:26 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-02 12:59 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-05-02 14:32 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-05-02 17:09 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-03 18:45 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-05-03 08:13 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-04 07:18 +1200
Re: How would you design C's replacement? David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2012-05-13 00:15 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-03 12:22 -0400
Re: How would you design C's replacement? nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com - 2012-05-03 03:09 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-05-03 03:55 -0700
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-03 12:45 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-05-03 13:15 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-05-03 13:41 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-05-03 17:51 +0100
Re: How would you design C's replacement? Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-05-03 12:37 -0400
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| From | nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 00:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <16038993.1390.1335771751469.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai3> |
| In reply to | #20061 |
On Sunday, April 29, 2012 9:07:39 PM UTC+1, io_x wrote: > i propose assembly: 8 32 bits registers and 20 - 30 instruction on them ... I don't think you understand what assembler is
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| From | "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 19:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4f9ecd60$0$1389$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it> |
| In reply to | #20088 |
<nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:16038993.1390.1335771751469.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai3...
> On Sunday, April 29, 2012 9:07:39 PM UTC+1, io_x wrote:
>
>> i propose assembly: 8 32 bits registers and 20 - 30 instruction on them ...
>
> I don't think you understand what assembler is
an assembler is one text converter from text we write in
the paper, or in one .txt format file, to cpu instructions...
to a file of cpu instructions
right? or something about it
i don't like theory [expecially when it seems theory is wrong]
so i like more pratice: programming using goto
[i express by '#'] for example this is
the last function i wrote-debug today...
align 4
InsBuf4CR:
<b,i,j,k
s-=32
a>=16#.e |a==0#.e|#.1
.e: a=16|stc |#.z
.1: i= c|^0=a|^4=c|i&=0Fh|^8=i ; i==0Fh [tutti bianchi] oppure
; caso nero 0<=i<=0Eh la posizione del primo nero
a&8!#.4
i==0Fh!#.2 ; tutti bianchi
a=0|FindPosBuf4CR() |jc .e ; nessuna posizione libera
k=a|a=^0|a&=7|PushkaBuf4CR()|jc .e|k&=0Fh|c&=0FFFFFFF0h|c|=k|#.f
.2: b=0Eh|FindPosOrdBuf4CR() |jc .e
.3: k=a|a=^0|a&=7|PushkaBuf4CR()|jc .e|#.f
; caso bianco
.4: i==0Fh!#.5 ; tutti bianchi
i=0|b=0Eh|FindPosOrdBuf4CR()|jc .e |#.3 ; CF== nessuna posizione libera
.5: i==0#.7|b=&*i-1|i=0|FindPosOrdBuf4CR() |jnc .6
a=&*b+1|a>=0Fh#.e ; caso non trovato in range
dato=> in b+1
.6: j=^8|j>=0Eh#.e|c&=0FFFFFFF0h|++j|c|=j|#.3
.7: ; caso inserisci un bianco in un vettore di neri...
; oppure inserisci il primo bianco
c==0!#.8|r==0!#.8|c|=0Fh|a=0|#.3
.8: a=0 |#.6
.f: a=k|clc
.z:
s=&*s+32
>b,i,j,k
ret
for doing the equivalent of what that function does, in some other language
in what i think...it is 4 time more long and 100 time more complex and
not readable...
and error check going to null...
Buon Giorno
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| From | "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-25 10:38 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4fbf43b8$0$1382$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it> |
| In reply to | #20106 |
"io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> ha scritto nel messaggio news:4f9ecd60$0$1389$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it... > > <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio > news:16038993.1390.1335771751469.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai3... >> On Sunday, April 29, 2012 9:07:39 PM UTC+1, io_x wrote: >> >>> i propose assembly: 8 32 bits registers and 20 - 30 instruction on them ... >> >> I don't think you understand what assembler is > > an assembler is one text converter from text we write in > the paper, or in one .txt format file, to cpu instructions... > to a file of cpu instructions > right? or something about it > > i don't like theory [expecially when it seems theory is wrong] > so i like more pratice: programming using goto > [i express by '#'] for example this is > the last function i wrote-debug today... > > align 4 > InsBuf4CR: > <b,i,j,k > s-=32 > a>=16#.e |a==0#.e|#.1 > .e: a=16|stc |#.z > .1: i= c|^0=a|^4=c|i&=0Fh|^8=i ; i==0Fh [tutti bianchi] oppure > ; caso nero 0<=i<=0Eh la posizione del primo nero > a&8!#.4 > i==0Fh!#.2 ; tutti bianchi > a=0|FindPosBuf4CR() |jc .e ; nessuna posizione libera > k=a|a=^0|a&=7|PushkaBuf4CR()|jc .e|k&=0Fh|c&=0FFFFFFF0h|c|=k|#.f > .2: b=0Eh|FindPosOrdBuf4CR() |jc .e > .3: k=a|a=^0|a&=7|PushkaBuf4CR()|jc .e|#.f > ; caso bianco > .4: i==0Fh!#.5 ; tutti bianchi > i=0|b=0Eh|FindPosOrdBuf4CR()|jc .e |#.3 ; CF== nessuna posizione > libera > .5: i==0#.7|b=&*i-1|i=0|FindPosOrdBuf4CR() |jnc .6 > a=&*b+1|a>=0Fh#.e ; caso non trovato in range > dato=> in b+1 > .6: j=^8|j>=0Eh#.e|c&=0FFFFFFF0h|++j|c|=j|#.3 > .7: ; caso inserisci un bianco in un vettore di neri... > ; oppure inserisci il primo bianco > c==0!#.8|r==0!#.8|c|=0Fh|a=0|#.3 > .8: a=0 |#.6 > .f: a=k|clc > .z: > s=&*s+32 >>b,i,j,k > ret nobody but me see it, but above is better than C C++ and all your programming languages... instruction while() not exist etc... > for doing the equivalent of what that function does, in some other language > in what i think...it is 4 time more long and 100 time more complex and > not readable... > and error check going to null... > > Buon Giorno > > >
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| From | "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-27 10:22 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <jpssi6$tf0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #21305 |
"io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> wrote in message news:4fbf43b8$0$1382$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it... >> i==0Fh!#.2 ; tutti bianchi >> a=0|FindPosBuf4CR() |jc .e ; nessuna posizione libera >> k=a|a=^0|a&=7|PushkaBuf4CR()|jc .e|k&=0Fh|c&=0FFFFFFF0h|c|=k|#.f >> .2: b=0Eh|FindPosOrdBuf4CR() |jc .e >> .3: k=a|a=^0|a&=7|PushkaBuf4CR()|jc .e|#.f ... > nobody but me see it, but above is better This is the problem. -- Bartc
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| From | FireXware <none@none.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-29 14:29 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <_whnr.16573$DB1.5365@newsfe03.iad> |
| In reply to | #20055 |
On 04/29/2012 10:17 AM, Rui Maciel wrote: > If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming > language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you > propopose? > I would keep C the same but enforce a universal 'package manager' type of thing for installing and building with libraries. So that I don't have to spend more time figuring out how to get the damn library to compile with my code than it would take me to write the library myself.
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| From | BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-29 17:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jnkls9$3fj$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #20066 |
On 4/29/2012 1:29 PM, FireXware wrote:
> On 04/29/2012 10:17 AM, Rui Maciel wrote:
>> If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming
>> language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you
>> propopose?
>>
>
> I would keep C the same but enforce a universal 'package manager' type
> of thing for installing and building with libraries. So that I don't
> have to spend more time figuring out how to get the damn library to
> compile with my code than it would take me to write the library myself.
this is more of an OS or tools issue than a language issue though.
although, C extensions to indicate library dependencies could be nice,
such that a directive in the headers can indicate to the compiler to
link against certain libraries.
#pragma usinglib("somelibrary")
could give a hint to the linker to try linking against
"libsomelibrary.so" or "somelibrary.dll" or similar.
but, on this note, some sort of cross-platform VM architecture which can
capably run C code would also be nice, as in:
can run unmodified C code (as well as other languages);
performs comparably to natively compiled code;
can utilize natively compiled libraries (and can be readily linked with
native code in both directions);
...
although technically .NET can run C and C++ code (via C++/CLI), it can't
really do so in a portable manner, and implementations like Mono don't
support it.
granted, this is likely itself technically non-trivial in some ways
(would be difficult to pull off in terms of keeping it portable and
non-intrusive), and apart from using native binary formats (such as
PE/COFF and ELF), it would almost invariably require some level of
auto-generated glue-code (such as linking against a "managed" library
requires either linking against a special static library or stub-library
which in-turn "trampolines" into the VM).
calling out of a VM is at least a little easier, but still not perfect.
a more subtle but nasty issue is that the contents of system headers
will tend to vary from one target to another:
the values of various defines;
the contents of various structures;
the types of various typedefs;
...
this in-turn likely requiring some "nasty trickery" to make work (this
is a problem which AFAICT C++/CLI did not address).
the other option would be to run the VM with "sandboxed" system
libraries (say, the C runtime runs within the VM and is independent of
the "native" C runtime). although simpler, this doesn't really fix the
problem (and potentially introduces a "seam" between the the world
inside the VM and the natively compiled parts of the app, say when
sharing data with the potentially that the internal and external types
and values differ).
although, to some extent, this latter strategy could be "glossed" via
trickery, such as:
typedef __native_type__(size_t) size_t;
typedef __native_type__(FILE) FILE;
which could basically indicate that the type is declared external to the
VM sandbox (the full type will not be known until later, but this allows
the compiler to have a set of "placeholder" types to work with).
as well as possibly with hackery like:
__native__ void *malloc(size_t size);
...
in this case, the version of the C library within the VM is mostly a set
of stubs to the native C library.
or such...
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| From | Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-01 10:56 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <jnoc1a$rgp$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #20075 |
BGB wrote: >> I would keep C the same but enforce a universal 'package manager' type >> of thing for installing and building with libraries. So that I don't >> have to spend more time figuring out how to get the damn library to >> compile with my code than it would take me to write the library myself. > > this is more of an OS or tools issue than a language issue though. Quite true. I suspect that the way the C programming language handles "packages" can't be made any simpler than it already is. The library headers are stored somewhere (anywhere) in the file system, and so are the object files, if there are any. Then, to be able to build our software with them, we only need to configure the compiler to search for those header and object files where we left them. I suspect that this is only an issue when automatic build systems make this to be harder than it is, and needs to be. Rui Maciel
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| From | BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-01 08:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jnou6b$efr$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #20151 |
On 5/1/2012 2:56 AM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> BGB wrote:
>
>>> I would keep C the same but enforce a universal 'package manager' type
>>> of thing for installing and building with libraries. So that I don't
>>> have to spend more time figuring out how to get the damn library to
>>> compile with my code than it would take me to write the library myself.
>>
>> this is more of an OS or tools issue than a language issue though.
>
> Quite true.
>
> I suspect that the way the C programming language handles "packages" can't
> be made any simpler than it already is. The library headers are stored
> somewhere (anywhere) in the file system, and so are the object files, if
> there are any. Then, to be able to build our software with them, we only
> need to configure the compiler to search for those header and object files
> where we left them.
>
> I suspect that this is only an issue when automatic build systems make this
> to be harder than it is, and needs to be.
>
well, it is a little nicer on Linux than it is on Windows (especially if
using MSVC), but even then, on Windows headers and libraries are found
via environment variables ("Include" and "LIB" or similar).
MS sets them up via a brain-dead batch-file.
and it is fairly problematic, say, to be able to interface MSVC (or even
Visual Studio) with the DirectX SDK (vs it being more automatic, like
what would be expected from MS).
most applications and libraries, similarly, also tend to have their own
directories for headers, libraries, and binaries (typically installed
somewhere under "C:\Program Files" or "C:\Program Files (x86)", but
sometimes things like "%HOMEPATH%\AppData\..." or similar).
so, typically this may mean things like creating new batch files, which
include other stuff in the various environment variables (such as by
chaining to the old batch files and adding new stuff afterwards).
however, there are merits to the Windows strategy as well.
on Linux, there is another problem:
it is problematic to store libraries somewhere not part of the standard
OS paths. so, it goes to the extreme in the opposite direction.
maybe some sort of "library registry" could make sense, with libraries
registering themselves with the OS or compiler or similar.
maybe, a compiler extension for "do I have X?" could also make sense:
#define MYAPP_USE_GTK _HAS_LIBRARY("gtk")
in addition maybe to something to indicate to link-in libraries from
within headers and source-files:
__use_library__("gtk");
which could (probably) largely eliminate the need for auto-configuration
and manually specifying libraries as command-line options.
other more speculative options are also possible (like if functionality
currently handled by "make" were integrated into the compiler, ...).
hmm (foo_main.c):
<--
#include <stdio.h>
#ifdef _BAR_CC_
__use_file__(
"base/foo_a.c",
"base/foo_b.c",
"base/foo_c.c");
__use_library__(
"somelib1", "somelib2");
...
#endif
int main()
{ ... }
-->
likewise, the compiler could also use and invoke external tools, ...
then, the compiler is invoked something like: "barcc foo_main.c", and
itself proceeds to build the whole rest of the project.
or such...
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| From | Mark Storkamp <mstorkamp@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-29 16:37 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mstorkamp-5A5D6D.16372429042012@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #20055 |
In article <jnjpil$ek2$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> wrote: > If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming > language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you > propopose? > > > Rui Maciel A Heuristic Algorithmic Language. Seems we're about 11 years behind schedule on that as it is.
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| From | Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-29 22:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20120429153756.346@kylheku.com> |
| In reply to | #20055 |
On 2012-04-29, Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote: > Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> writes: >>If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming >>language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you >>propopose? > > I'd decline this task. I am not capable to design something > better. I'd propose to keep evolving C. I'd propose to hang C on the shelf and keep evolving C++.
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| From | jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 06:41 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <jnl560$tbn$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #20055 |
Le 29/04/12 22:56, Stefan Ram a écrit : > Rui Maciel<rui.maciel@gmail.com> writes: >> If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming >> language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you >> propopose? > > I'd decline this task. I am not capable to design something > better. I'd propose to keep evolving C. > I am doing exactly that. See http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
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| From | Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 01:33 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <s2csp7da9k22ru7gpjnen4uplpui6igl28@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #20055 |
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:17:29 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> wrote: >If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming >language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you >propopose? There have been dozens, if not hundreds attempts to create a "better" language than C. Heck, I've speculated how such a thing might look, and have a laundry list of things I'd like changed. The problem is that all this entirely misses the point. C is an OK low-ish level language, with no horrible flaws that prevent its use in many places. There *are* dozens of better languages, even for C's primary system level purpose. C's value has almost nothing to do with its quality as a language (other than the avoidance of terrible flaws), and everything to do with its ubiquity. And if you can't address C's ubiquity, you aren't going to have a better language than C.
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 07:26 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <jnlst4$4vp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #20084 |
On 04/30/2012 02:33 AM, Robert Wessel wrote: ... > And if you can't address C's ubiquity, you aren't going to have a > better language than C. One of the key features of C that has lead to it's ubiquity is also one that's been most strongly reviled: the freedom it gives implementors in implementing the language. The standard deliberately leaves many features implementation-defined or otherwise unspecified, and in many cases says that the behavior is undefined. In many cases, it does so because it was thought that there might be some platforms, now or in the future, for which requiring a specific behavior would make it excessively difficult to create a fully conforming implementation of C with acceptable performance. What the standard doesn't say about Quality of Implementation (QoI) allows a low-quality but conforming implementation of C to become available on virtually every possible platform not long after the platform itself becomes available. What the standard doesn't say about specific features allows a high-performance implementation that takes advantages of specific features of a particular platform, while still being fully-conforming, to eventually become available. That is a key factor in C's ubiquity. It's not the only factor - if it were, then the best C standard would be no C standard, giving implementors complete freedom of implementation. I programmed in C before the first standard, I have no desire to go back to that world. The C standard does mandate support for enough useful features that people can write useful programs without very frequently exceeding the limits of what it does guarantee, and that is also important. -- James Kuyper
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| From | jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <jnlt42$ovm$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #20093 |
Le 30/04/12 13:26, James Kuyper a écrit : > On 04/30/2012 02:33 AM, Robert Wessel wrote: > ... >> And if you can't address C's ubiquity, you aren't going to have a >> better language than C. > > One of the key features of C that has lead to it's ubiquity is also one > that's been most strongly reviled: the freedom it gives implementors in > implementing the language. The standard deliberately leaves many > features implementation-defined or otherwise unspecified, and in many > cases says that the behavior is undefined. In many cases, it does so > because it was thought that there might be some platforms, now or in the > future, for which requiring a specific behavior would make it > excessively difficult to create a fully conforming implementation of C > with acceptable performance. > [snip] That doesn't justify taking 20+ years for getting rid of gets() however. There are obvious WARTS and BUGS in the C standard. asctime() had a built in buffer overflow in the sample code of the C99 standard. We have discussed about the trigraphs for years and they are STILL THERE in the 2011 standard that didn't dare to fix all bugs apparently, they were busy introducing more problems with their thread specs. :-( jacob
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| From | Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-01 11:44 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <a08mfmFkabU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #20084 |
On 04/30/12 06:33 PM, Robert Wessel wrote: > On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:17:29 +0100, Rui Maciel<rui.maciel@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming >> language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what would you >> propopose? > > > There have been dozens, if not hundreds attempts to create a "better" > language than C. Heck, I've speculated how such a thing might look, > and have a laundry list of things I'd like changed. > > The problem is that all this entirely misses the point. C is an OK > low-ish level language, with no horrible flaws that prevent its use in > many places. There *are* dozens of better languages, even for C's > primary system level purpose. C's value has almost nothing to do with > its quality as a language (other than the avoidance of terrible > flaws), and everything to do with its ubiquity. > > And if you can't address C's ubiquity, you aren't going to have a > better language than C. C's ubiquity comes in various forms, not only as run anywhere but also find a programmer anywhere. Most of the embedded projects I have been involved with recently use gcc and a decent subset of those used gcc and a Linux kernel. One of my first questions I asked on joining those projects was "why don't you use C++?" and the answer invariably boils down to "we use what we are familiar with". So if it's hard to find experienced developers for the most popular C derived language, I'd hate to be the one promoting a new one! -- Ian Collins
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| From | BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-30 22:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jnns99$5to$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #20122 |
On 4/30/2012 4:44 PM, Ian Collins wrote: > On 04/30/12 06:33 PM, Robert Wessel wrote: >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:17:29 +0100, Rui Maciel<rui.maciel@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> If you were given the task to design a replacement for the C programming >>> language intended to fix all its problems and shortcomings, what >>> would you >>> propopose? >> >> >> There have been dozens, if not hundreds attempts to create a "better" >> language than C. Heck, I've speculated how such a thing might look, >> and have a laundry list of things I'd like changed. >> >> The problem is that all this entirely misses the point. C is an OK >> low-ish level language, with no horrible flaws that prevent its use in >> many places. There *are* dozens of better languages, even for C's >> primary system level purpose. C's value has almost nothing to do with >> its quality as a language (other than the avoidance of terrible >> flaws), and everything to do with its ubiquity. >> >> And if you can't address C's ubiquity, you aren't going to have a >> better language than C. > > C's ubiquity comes in various forms, not only as run anywhere but also > find a programmer anywhere. > > Most of the embedded projects I have been involved with recently use gcc > and a decent subset of those used gcc and a Linux kernel. One of my > first questions I asked on joining those projects was "why don't you use > C++?" and the answer invariably boils down to "we use what we are > familiar with". > > So if it's hard to find experienced developers for the most popular C > derived language, I'd hate to be the one promoting a new one! > I also use mostly C, rather than C++, albeit I have my own reasons. earlier on, I think it was because G++ was often either broken or buggy (or, sometimes, missing altogether), so I didn't really trust it. the most notable issue at present being that writing a C++ parser for my tools to use looks like a huge PITA, so thus far I haven't really seen it as a justified effort (more so for sake of features which are, technically, mostly just syntax sugar anyways). if I can write "slightly less clean" and do similar in C, it isn't really a worthwhile tradeoff to use C++. but, in any case, my language efforts aren't really intended to "replace" C, as personally I see it as a fairly solid language for what it does. so, alas...
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| From | Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-01 18:23 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <a09drqFkabU8@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #20135 |
On 05/ 1/12 05:25 PM, BGB wrote: > > I also use mostly C, rather than C++, albeit I have my own reasons. > earlier on, I think it was because G++ was often either broken or buggy > (or, sometimes, missing altogether), so I didn't really trust it. > > > the most notable issue at present being that writing a C++ parser for my > tools to use looks like a huge PITA, so thus far I haven't really seen > it as a justified effort (more so for sake of features which are, > technically, mostly just syntax sugar anyways). Full C++ is extremely complex to parse, but the C with classes subset shouldn't present too many problems (see cfront) and provides a worthwhile superset of C. -- Ian Collins
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| From | BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-01 06:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jnonvk$ts$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #20138 |
On 4/30/2012 11:23 PM, Ian Collins wrote: > On 05/ 1/12 05:25 PM, BGB wrote: >> >> I also use mostly C, rather than C++, albeit I have my own reasons. >> earlier on, I think it was because G++ was often either broken or buggy >> (or, sometimes, missing altogether), so I didn't really trust it. >> >> >> the most notable issue at present being that writing a C++ parser for my >> tools to use looks like a huge PITA, so thus far I haven't really seen >> it as a justified effort (more so for sake of features which are, >> technically, mostly just syntax sugar anyways). > > Full C++ is extremely complex to parse, but the C with classes subset > shouldn't present too many problems (see cfront) and provides a > worthwhile superset of C. > yes, but there is the issue that if "__cplusplus" is defined, a bunch of C++ related stuff starts piling in from system headers. this could still be looked into though.
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| From | Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-02 20:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnjq360s.1ls.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> |
| In reply to | #20122 |
On Mon, 2012-04-30, Ian Collins wrote: > On 04/30/12 06:33 PM, Robert Wessel wrote: ... >> And if you can't address C's ubiquity, you aren't going to have a >> better language than C. > > C's ubiquity comes in various forms, not only as run anywhere but also > find a programmer anywhere. > > Most of the embedded projects I have been involved with recently use gcc > and a decent subset of those used gcc and a Linux kernel. One of my > first questions I asked on joining those projects was "why don't you use > C++?" and the answer invariably boils down to "we use what we are > familiar with". > > So if it's hard to find experienced developers for the most popular C > derived language, I'd hate to be the one promoting a new one! Perhaps we should wish for better programmers instead of better languages. (In this specific case, better at picking up worthwhile new ideas. I don't doubt those guys' C skills.) /Jorgen -- // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . . \X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| From | nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-03 01:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <33349187.185.1336032612419.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbmi19> |
| In reply to | #20122 |
On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 12:44:54 AM UTC+1, Ian Collins wrote: > C's ubiquity comes in various forms, not only as run anywhere but also > find a programmer anywhere. > > Most of the embedded projects I have been involved with recently use gcc > and a decent subset of those used gcc and a Linux kernel. One of my > first questions I asked on joining those projects was "why don't you use > C++?" and the answer invariably boils down to "we use what we are > familiar with". > > So if it's hard to find experienced developers for the most popular C > derived language, I'd hate to be the one promoting a new one! where did they say they'd had a problem finding C++ programmers? Sometimes it's just very conservative management.
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