Re: unicode is a fail

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From	Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: unicode is a fail
Date	Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:04:49 -0800
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supercat@casperkitty.com writes:
> On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 11:35:32 AM UTC-6, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> But the ASCII control characters 0..31 and 127 are *very* useful
>> and necessary.  Neither vi nor emacs would work without them.
>
> Codes 127/255 are an interesting case.  The purpose of 127/255 was not to
> perform an action, but rather to be a nop alternative to 0.  A blank row
> of punch-tape reads as zero; an all-holes-punched row reads as FF.  If the
> operator of an ASR-33 was typing a story and made a mistake, the procedure
> for making a correction was to push the back-one-row button on the punch
> (which mechanically moved the paper back one row without sending any sort
> of code) and then punch the "rub-out" button which sent code 127/255.  The
> existence of the rub-out character on the tape would increase transmission
> time by a tenth of a second, but not have any other adverse consequences.

Sure -- but code 127 (in ASCII, Latin-1, and Unicode) is DEL, which a
control character used in interactive input.  It's commonly denotes
deleting a character, but only because of the mnemonic name, not because
it has 7 bits set to 1.  And 255 is LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS.
The history of the all-rows-punched semantics is interesting, but it
doesn't directly affect modern usage.

> As for codes 0x80-0x9F, those were set aside I think because some terminals
> regard 0x80-0xFF as synonymous with 0x00-0x7F on reception, which meant that
> if a terminal was being used for display-only purposes there was no need to
> worry about parity settings.  If one sent a document with 8-bit chracter
> data to a terminal configured for 7 bits ignore parity, characters beyond
> 0xA0 would show up as alternative characters, but everything else would
> appear as it should.  If the document used characters 0x80-0x9F as printable
> characters, they could cause the appearance of other characters to be
> garbled.

I don't know why they were *originally set aside, but certainly Latin-N
and Unicode don't treat them as equivalent to the 0..31 control
characters.  For example, U+0006 is ACKNOWLEDGE or ACK, and U+0086 is
START OF SELECTED AREA.  And Windows-1252 has printable characters in
(most of) the range 128..160; as far as I know that hasn't caused any
problems other than incompatibility with non-Windows character sets.
(Windows-1252 apparently was originally intended to be an ANSI standard,
but ISO 8859 went in a different diretion for some reason.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

Thread

unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 08:01 -0800
  Re: unicode is a fail me <self@example.org> - 2015-12-02 16:12 +0000
    Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 09:09 -0800
  Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-02 08:18 -0800
    Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 09:07 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 11:21 -0600
        Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 09:40 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 11:22 -0800
          Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 15:59 -0600
            Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 16:25 -0800
              Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 19:47 -0600
          Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-02 14:38 -0800
            Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 16:26 -0800
              Re: unicode is a fail Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-09 11:33 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-09 12:21 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 11:28 +0100
          Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-03 08:50 -0600
            Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 16:38 +0100
              Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-03 10:01 -0600
            Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-03 09:46 -0800
            Re: unicode is a fail raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-04 12:39 +0000
          Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-03 08:26 -0800
            Re: unicode is a fail glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-03 18:42 +0000
              Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-03 17:14 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-03 19:02 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-04 06:35 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 05:11 -0500
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-04 10:24 -0600
            Re: unicode is a fail Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-12-03 22:37 +0000
              Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-04 11:32 +0100
    Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 11:10 -0600
      Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 09:24 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 13:10 -0600
          Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-02 19:45 +0000
            Re: unicode is a fail Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-12-03 09:08 +1300
            Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 14:10 -0600
      Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 11:27 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 15:21 -0600
          Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 15:18 -0800
            Re: unicode is a fail raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-04 12:45 +0000
    Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 09:43 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-02 11:40 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-02 12:19 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-12-02 21:23 +0000
    Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 10:12 +0100
      Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-03 02:13 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 14:11 +0100
          Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-03 05:17 -0800
            Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 15:33 +0100
              Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-03 07:05 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 16:42 +0100
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-03 07:58 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-12-03 10:38 +0000
        Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-03 14:17 +0100
      Re: unicode is a fail raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-04 12:54 +0000
        Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-04 14:25 +0100
          Re: unicode is a fail Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-12-04 13:46 +0000
  Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 23:24 +0000
    Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-03 00:45 +0000
      Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-02 20:59 -0600
      Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-02 19:13 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 07:00 +0000
        Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-04 04:45 -0800
          Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 18:04 +0000
        Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-04 13:22 +0000
          Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-04 07:35 -0800
          Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 19:17 +0000
            Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-04 11:49 -0800
              Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-04 15:39 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-04 14:19 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-06 12:57 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-06 15:47 -0800
              Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-05 01:13 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-12-05 01:59 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-12-05 17:17 +0100
                Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 06:28 +0000
            Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-04 23:46 +0000
              Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-05 01:04 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-05 03:21 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-05 13:03 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-05 11:47 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-05 04:40 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-05 13:26 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-05 13:35 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-06 02:23 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 16:09 +0530
                Re: unicode is a fail Xavier <zaz.colmant@free.fr> - 2015-12-05 15:45 +0100
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-05 07:42 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-05 16:32 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-05 18:11 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-06 02:19 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-06 13:09 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-06 18:38 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-07 01:55 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-06 19:14 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-12-07 13:53 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-07 06:31 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-12-07 21:22 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-07 15:34 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-07 16:36 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2015-12-08 11:40 -0500
                Re: unicode is a fail Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-12-08 17:18 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-09 08:36 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-09 10:06 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-09 09:35 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-09 10:07 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-09 12:04 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-09 12:35 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-09 23:46 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-09 16:15 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-10 03:49 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-09 18:12 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-12-09 13:12 -0500
                Re: unicode is a fail Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-12-09 12:12 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-10 20:48 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-09 23:44 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-10 01:13 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-10 10:39 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-10 03:33 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-12-10 06:07 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-10 08:21 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-10 00:59 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-07 14:33 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-06 22:45 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-07 12:38 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-07 13:55 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-12-07 21:14 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-07 16:50 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-07 02:38 -0600
                Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 07:34 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-06 00:24 -0800
              Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-04 19:49 -0600
            Re: unicode is a fail Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-12-05 21:32 +0000
              Re: unicode is a fail Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-05 13:50 -0800
                Re: unicode is a fail Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-12-05 22:15 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-12-05 17:27 -0500
                Re: unicode is a fail Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-12-05 23:06 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-12-05 18:29 -0500
                Re: unicode is a fail Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-12-05 23:50 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 06:38 +0000
                Re: unicode is a fail raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-06 13:33 +0000
              Re: unicode is a fail James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-12-05 16:51 -0500
              Re: unicode is a fail Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-12-06 10:59 +1300
                Re: unicode is a fail Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-12-06 11:00 +1300
              Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 06:31 +0000
    Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-02 17:48 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 01:20 -0800
        Re: unicode is a fail fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-03 02:02 -0800
    Re: unicode is a fail Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-12-03 09:43 -0600
    Re: unicode is a fail raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-04 12:55 +0000
      Re: unicode is a fail Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 18:29 +0000
        Re: unicode is a fail Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-12-05 16:42 +0000
    Re: unicode is a fail Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-12-05 10:06 +0000
      OT: Usenet (Was: unicode is a fail) Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-12-05 20:41 +0000
        Re: OT: Usenet (Was: unicode is a fail) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-05 13:18 -0800
      Re: unicode is a fail Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2015-12-06 10:21 +0530
        OT: Facebook (was Re: unicode is a fail) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-12-06 08:51 +0000
          Re: OT: Facebook (was Re: unicode is a fail) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-12-06 13:45 +0000

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