Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle
Date	2025-04-07 05:46 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86ldscdtqw.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <vsse5t$3gbj1$1@dont-email.me> <86tt71fuxh.fsf@linuxsc.com> <vsu73b$1b0t8$1@dont-email.me> <86y0wcelxp.fsf@linuxsc.com> <vsvk08$2r125$1@dont-email.me>

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olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> writes:

> On 4/6/2025 9:37 PM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 4/6/2025 5:25 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/04/2025 23:42, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2025-04-05, Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/04/2025 23:20, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The difference between us is that I know it and you don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Olcott resides in a fortress he built out of bricks that were
>>>>>> specially ordered from Dunning and Kruger's website.
>>>>>> You're not getting through.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, no.  On the other hand, the discussion has in places driven
>>>>> me to the literature and has thus in its own way been
>>>>> educational.  For example, I was surprised to discover that
>>>>> although Turing's 1936 paper does deal with the Halting Problem,
>>>>> he doesn't actually use that term, which didn't surface until
>>>>> 1952.  I also stumbled on a 1972 paper on incomputability by Tony
>>>>> Hoare and Donald Allison - well worth the read, and I was amused
>>>>> by its somewhat prescient opening paragraph: "[...] programmers
>>>>> have been known to attempt solutions to problems which are
>>>>> probably unsolvable;  the existence of such problems should be of
>>>>> interest to all programmers."  Clearly, 53 years ago, they already
>>>>> had Olcott nailed.
>>>>
>>>> I agree these discoveries are interesting, but the subject still
>>>> isn't one that is suitable for comp.lang.c.  A good way to avoid
>>>> these long pointless discussions is not to respond to postings
>>>> that are not suitable to comp.lang.c, except to point out that
>>>> they are not suitable to comp.lang.c.  And for any given poster,
>>>> don't respond to unsuitable postings more often than once a month.
>>>
>>> My intent was to focus on the semantics of a pair of C functions.
>>> Digression into computer science seems inappropriate and never
>>> was my intent.  The comp.theory people refused to consider the
>>> semantics of C aspects of these functions.
>>
>> It seems the people who are responding to you have the impression
>> that you are convinced you have a solution to the halting problem,
>> and that your questions about code are in effect asking people to
>> convince you that you don't (or alternatively that you are offering
>> an argument that you have solved the halting problem).
>>
>> If indeed your interest is only about how C defines the semantics of
>> some particular functions written in C, and having nothing to do
>> with solving the halting problem, then the burden is on you to
>> express that question well enough so that other people realize that.
>> So far it appears that you haven't succeeded with anyone who has
>> responded to your postings.
>
> int DD()
> {
>   int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>   if (Halt_Status)
>     HERE: goto HERE;
>   return Halt_Status;
> }
>
> The people responding to my posts have consistently
> stonewalled my every attempt to:
> (a) Show that DD correctly simulated by HHH could
>     never reach its own "return" instruction.
>
> (b) We never got to (b) because of endless stonewalling.
>
> The end goal (in this forum) that is empirically proven
> by this fully operational code:
>
> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
>
> is to show that HHH is a correct termination analyzer for DD.

I'm sorry my comments weren't more helpful for you.

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Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 15:52 -0500
  Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 17:15 -0400
    Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:29 -0500
      Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 17:31 -0400
        Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-05 23:18 +0100
          Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 18:27 -0400
            Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 19:30 -0500
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 20:34 -0400
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 19:43 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 02:21 +0100
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 22:30 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 21:22 -0400
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 01:52 +0100
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 20:22 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 02:37 +0100
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 20:42 -0500
          Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 18:18 -0500
            Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 19:20 -0400
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 19:36 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 02:03 +0100
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 22:34 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 21:19 -0400
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 20:49 -0500
            Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 00:45 +0100
            Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-05 20:54 -0400
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 20:09 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 02:31 +0100
      Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 14:32 -0700
  Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-05 22:58 +0100
    Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 17:20 -0500
      Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-05 23:31 +0100
        Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-05 22:42 +0000
          Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 00:25 +0100
            Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-06 03:25 -0700
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 11:34 +0100
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 10:37 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-06 19:37 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 23:23 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-07 05:46 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-07 14:04 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-07 16:54 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-08 10:52 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 22:04 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-07 16:41 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 21:22 -0500
          Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 19:07 -0500
        Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 19:35 -0500
          Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-06 01:59 +0100
            Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 22:26 -0500
              Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 23:00 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 12:18 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 16:39 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 21:02 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 21:04 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 21:10 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 17:53 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 20:00 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 09:42 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 13:00 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-11 21:57 +0100
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 07:08 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 07:03 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 12:38 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 14:56 -0500
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 14:50 -0700
                Re: Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 18:26 -0500

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