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From: Tim Rentsch
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: encapsulating directory operations
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2025 17:26:21 -0700
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Michael S writes:
> On Tue, 27 May 2025 16:16:50 -0700
> Tim Rentsch wrote:
>
>> Michael S writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 May 2025 16:23:22 +0200
>>> David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/05/2025 07:19, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Groovy hepcat Tim Rentsch was jivin' in comp.lang.c on Fri, 23 May
>>>>> 2025 10:43 pm. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> C99 is just as stable as C90, and has been for well over a
>>>>>> decade.
>>>>>
>>>>> Methinks Tim is having trouble with his arithmetic. Either
>>>>> that or he doesn't know what year it is now. :)
>>>>> C99 was ratified in 1999, over two and a half decades ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>> C11 is just as stable as C90, and has been for just slightly
>>>>>> less than a decade.
>>>>>
>>>>> And C11 was ratified in 2011, no? That was almost a decade
>>>>> and a half ago.
>>>>
>>>> Tim was, I believe, taking into account the time it took for common
>>>> implementations of C compilers and libraries to have complete and
>>>> generally bug-free support for the standards, and for these
>>>> implementations to become common. C99 was published in 1999, but
>>>> it took quite a while before most people programming in C could
>>>> happily use C99 without worrying about the tool support being
>>>> "experimental" or not as mature as C90 support.
>>>
>>> I believe that your belief is wrong.
>>> It is much more likely that Tim took into account defect reports.
>>> Here is the list of C11 defect reports with the last dated 2016:
>>> https://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/summary.htm
>>>
>>> I did not find similar list for C99. However believing Tim I would
>>> guess that the last change in C99 document was made ~15 years ago.
>>
>> You are partly right. Besides defect reports, there are TCs. And
>> there is always the possibility of future TCs, future defect
>> reports, or future changes for any ISO C standard while it is
>> still current.
>>
>> To be as stable as C90, a C standard would need to be immune to
>> the possibility of such future changes.
>>
>> I take C99 to have reached this level of stability in 2011, when
>> it was superseded by C11. I take C11 to have reached this level
>> of stability in 2017, when it was superseded by C17.
>
> Got it. Stability occurs when the standards is fenced from
> changes by presence of the next edition.
> Stability by obsolescence.
Right except the word obsolescence is not appropriate. The release
of C99 doesn't make C90 either obsolete or obsolescent. It is
possible that a given earlier edition of C will become either
obsolete or obsolescent, but it isn't the release of a subsequent
edition that does that. Stability happens when a subsequent edition
is ratified, regardless of when or whether an earlier edition ever
becomes either obsolete or obsolescent. No edition of C is now
obsolete, nor do I expect any of them will be during our lifetimes.