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Re: Custom Storage Pool questions

From Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.ada
Subject Re: Custom Storage Pool questions
Date 2021-09-18 18:59 +0300
Organization Tidorum Ltd
Message-ID <iqmgn0F8ftgU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <si2ud7$fv2$1@gioia.aioe.org> <iqkevvFr27rU1@mid.individual.net> <si45ls$1goa$1@gioia.aioe.org> <iqloa8F3sptU1@mid.individual.net> <si4ell$1b25$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 2021-09-18 13:22, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
> On 2021-09-18 11:03, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>> On 2021-09-18 10:49, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-17 23:17, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-17 23:39, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-09-17 21:46, Simon Wright wrote:
>>>>>> "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, especially because the issue with X'Address being unusable for
>>>>>>> memory pool developers is a long standing painful problem that 
>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> be resolved. That will never happen until a measurable group of 
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> start asking questions. So you are doubly welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two attributes that we should all have known about,
>>>>>> Descriptor_Size[1] (bits, introduced in 2011) and 
>>>>>> Finalization_Size[2]
>>>>>> (storage units, I think, introduced in 2017)
>>>>>
>>>>> They are non-standard and have murky semantics I doubt anybody 
>>>>> really cares about.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is needed is the address passed to Deallocate should the 
>>>>> object be freed = the address returned by Allocate. Is that too 
>>>>> much to ask?
>>>>
>>>> That is already required by RM 13.11(21.7/3): "The value of the 
>>>> Storage_Address parameter for a call to Deallocate is the value 
>>>> returned in the Storage_Address parameter of the corresponding 
>>>> successful call to Allocate."
>>>
>>> You missed the discussion totally. It is about X'Address attribute.
>>
>>
>> Sure, I understand that the address returned by Allocate, and passed 
>> to Deallocate, for an object X, is not always X'Address, and that you 
>> would like some means to get the Allocate/Deallocate address from (an 
>> access to) X. But what you stated as not "too much to ask" is 
>> specifically required in the RM paragraph I quoted. Perhaps you meant 
>> to state something else, about X'Address or some other attribute, but 
>> that was not what you wrote.
> 
> I wrote about attributes, specifically GNAT-specific ones used in the 
> blog to calculate the correct address.


You wrote about the attributes in an earlier paragraph, not the one that 
said "too much to ask" -- see the quotes above. But ok, enough said.


> "Too much to ask" was about an 
> attribute that would return the object address directly.
> 
>> Given that an object can be allocated in multiple independent pieces, 
>> it seems unlikely that what you want will be provided.
> 
> Such implementations would automatically disqualify the compiler. 
> Compiler-generated piecewise allocation is OK for the stack, not for 
> user storage pools.


That is your opinion (or need), to which you are entitled, of course, 
but it is not an RM requirement on compilers -- see Randy's posts about 
what Janus/Ada does.


>>>>> BTW, finalization lists (#2) should have been removed from the 
>>>>> language long ago. 
>>>>
>>>> Huh? Where does the RM _require_ finalization lists?
>>>
>>> 7.6.1 (11 1/3)
>>
>>
>> RM (2012) 7.6.1 (11.1/3) says only that objects must be finalized in 
>> reverse order of their creation. 


Oops, I quoted the above from 7.6.1 (11/3), which specifies the order of 
finalization in another case (finalization of a master). RM 7.6.1 
(11.1/3) leaves the order arbitrary for the finalization of a collection.


>> There is no mention of "list".
> 
> It talks about "collection."
> 
>> Then your complaint seems to be about something specified for the 
>> order of finalization, but you haven't said clearly what that 
>> something is.
> 
> No, it is about the overhead of maintaining "collections" associated 
> with an access type in order to call Finalization for all members of the 
> collection.


So you want a way to specify that for a given access type, although the 
accessed object type has a Finalize operation or needs finalization, the 
objects left over in the (at least conceptually) associated collection 
should _not_ be finalized when the scope of the access type is left? 
Have you proposed this to the ARG?

To me it seems a risky think to do, subverting the normal semantics of 
initialization and finalization. Perhaps it could be motivated for 
library-level collections in programs that are known to never terminate 
(that is, to not need any clean-up when they do stop or are stopped).

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Thread

Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-12 17:53 -0700
  Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-13 00:29 -0500
    Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-13 18:04 -0700
      Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:06 -0500
    Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-18 12:32 +0100
    Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-19 17:31 -0700
      Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-20 09:34 +0300
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Emmanuel Briot <briot.emmanuel@gmail.com> - 2021-09-19 23:48 -0700
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-20 09:35 +0200
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Shark8 <onewingedshark@gmail.com> - 2021-09-20 09:59 -0700
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:50 -0500
            Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-21 16:08 -0700
              Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-27 23:42 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 16:19 -0700
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-03 10:52 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-13 20:26 -0500
  Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "J-P. Rosen" <rosen@adalog.fr> - 2021-09-13 13:12 +0200
    Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-13 17:48 -0700
      Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "J-P. Rosen" <rosen@adalog.fr> - 2021-09-14 08:08 +0200
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-14 17:39 -0700
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-15 08:01 +0100
            Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 16:32 -0700
              Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 18:51 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-21 15:40 -0700
      Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-14 08:23 +0200
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "J-P. Rosen" <rosen@adalog.fr> - 2021-09-14 08:42 +0200
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-14 09:00 +0200
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 18:58 -0500
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-14 17:21 -0700
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-15 08:54 +0200
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 18:48 -0500
      Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Egil H H <ehh.public@gmail.com> - 2021-09-14 03:54 -0700
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-14 17:11 -0700
  Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-15 17:43 +0100
    Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-15 18:03 +0100
    Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-15 21:07 +0200
      Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-15 21:40 +0100
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Emmanuel Briot <briot.emmanuel@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 00:12 -0700
          Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Jere <jhb.chat@gmail.com> - 2021-09-16 16:21 -0700
            Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Emmanuel Briot <briot.emmanuel@gmail.com> - 2021-09-17 00:08 -0700
            Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-17 08:18 +0100
            Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-17 15:56 +0200
              Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-17 20:46 +0100
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-17 22:39 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-18 00:17 +0300
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-18 09:49 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-18 12:03 +0300
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-18 12:22 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-18 18:59 +0300
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-18 18:19 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-19 13:36 +0300
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-19 13:41 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-20 10:05 +0300
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-20 09:35 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-09-20 11:08 +0300
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-20 10:28 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:45 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:40 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:30 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:37 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-21 08:28 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-27 23:38 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-28 09:00 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:26 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-21 08:51 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-27 23:31 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-28 08:56 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-09-28 08:52 +0100
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-28 10:07 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-28 17:04 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-29 09:57 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Shark8 <onewingedshark@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 07:41 -0700
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-29 17:16 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-29 19:16 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-30 10:08 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-30 19:04 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-01 10:25 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-02 04:06 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-02 12:18 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-02 23:33 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-03 10:40 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-13 20:21 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "philip...@gmail.com" <philip.munts@gmail.com> - 2021-10-13 20:12 -0700
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-14 09:31 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-14 19:36 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org> - 2021-10-15 01:08 -0700
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-15 10:18 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-15 17:22 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-15 10:15 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-10-15 17:44 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-16 11:00 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Simon Wright <simon@pushface.org> - 2021-10-16 15:32 +0100
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-10-16 17:06 +0200
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions Shark8 <onewingedshark@gmail.com> - 2021-10-18 07:23 -0700
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:19 -0500
                Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> - 2021-09-20 19:18 -0500
        Re: Custom Storage Pool questions "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2021-09-16 10:41 +0200

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