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Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access?

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On Apr 6, 2:50 am, "Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMmkal...@msn.com>
wrote:
> I am a user of the iPad and also a windows 7 phone.
> So, I used these touch based systems, and I used them with Access.
>
> And in fact until you start to think about how software can and should work
> is about the time you start asking questions like yours!
>
> I can well say it took me about two good solid afternoons to figure out how
> to make Access Web applications navigate the way I want. Things in web
> browsers are so really very different than the typical form to form to form
> navigation in typical Access desktop applications.
>
> However, I have run some of my Access (web) applications on the above
> mentioned devices.
>
> A few things:
>
> In the case of the iPad and Access, you are either going to be using some
> remote desktop software, or you going to be using a web based application
> (Access 2010 web services). In both of these cases, it not very likely that
> the multi touch gestures can or even would be transmitted back to the
> desktop or web based software correctly.
>
> With the web then of course the pinch zoom and scroll works great with
> Access on my iPad. However those gestures do not work for combo or list
> boxes.
>
> On the windows 7 phone, combo boxes on most web sites are converted into a
> VERY cool touch scroll (gesture based) UI for picking a combo box. However,
> Access web combo boxes do not display that UI BECAUSE Access combo boxes
> also allow text (keyboard) typing. If we could disable the keyboard on those
> combo boxes, then combo boxes would translate to a cool gesture based
> selection process.
>
> However for remote desktop software, it just not going to work this way.
>
> However, you can still optimize your software (windows RDP or web) for a
> touch based device. You have to change your approach and build a nice
> "larger" continues forms in place of a list box (I mean, even in regular
> access, it often hard to tell the difference between a sub form and a list
> box anyway).
>
> Along with larger rows, and providing larger target touch buttons such as
> "edit" to view a row, you can do a passible job. This web based Access form
> for example works quite well on the iPad:
>
> http://www.kallal.ca/searchw/search3.png
>
> The above is part of a soundex search example I have in Access that can run
> in a web browser. The above sample code and article can be found here:http://www.kallal.ca/searchw/WebSoundex.htm
>
> In other words, the multi touch ability and those natural gestures you use
> in native iPad or phone applications will not really work over a remote
> connection to your desktop software  (sure the pinch zoom and pan to scroll
> around on the screen does, but not selecting of combo or listboxes).  So,
> even in the case where you did or could purchase some touch controls, you
> could not be 100% sure such controls would work in web or remote desktop
> software. I do not think that the iPad RDP clients to windows being sold
> supports multi touch + gestures right now anyway that windows 7 desktop now
> supports.
>
> However, you can still optimize your applications for touch by providing
> large buttons for navigation and edits. You can provide nice large continues
> forms (in place of a list box). You can ensure that the number of names in
> the list is minimal. You can ensure that navigation is kept to an absolute
> minimum. You can ensure (in fact must ensure) that typing is kept to an
> absolute minimum. And for things like date or time, you want them to be
> defaulted.
>
> In the following video of mine, I went to GREAT lengths to eliminate the
> dance from mouse to keyboard and then back to mouse to allow the user to set
> the start time and the end time. In fact, I can set the start time of 2 PM
> and end time of 7 PM with JUST TWO mouse clicks. So, I find this form fun to
> use in regular Access let alone on my iPad.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU4mH0jPntI
>
> The time picker in above is just standard Access list boxes.
>
> While touch devices like iPad have a REALLY cool time picker wheel on the
> screen that you spin and rotate with your thumb, they are somewhat slow to
> use and they do not appear when using a web browser.
>
> In fact I find my above ONE CLICK time pick in that web form is much faster
> than the gesture based time pickers.  In the above video, you note I am
> using access, but I made it TWO SIMPLE touches or mouse clicks to set the
> start + end time from 4 pm to 8 pm (it takes just  two quick touches on the
> iPad). Of course if the minutes need setting, then that is two additional
> touches, but is still far better than the gesture time picker on the iPad
> anyway.
>
> In fact the same much goes for any other type of pick list etc., and you
> really cannot afford to have the user have to type much with these types of
> devices. In fact holding an iPad and attempting to type on it is near
> impossible. So if you cannot make most of the task an easy touch affair then
> the whole project will become a failure. You must reduce and attempt to
> build forms that are 100% choice based and not need typing.
>
> And if you going to use Access, then you have to forgo most of the gesture
> and motion based UI tweaks that these new touch systems have. I do admit
> they are really nice.
>
> So, you can still optimize your applications quite well despite not having
> some of those new controls.
>
> Access web services are a possible here. Unfortunately the Access web and
> client combo box allows typing and that is NOT what you want. The reason
> being is when a comb box is hit on my windows 7 phone, it goes full screen
> and displays a really nice gesture based scrolling screen.  (on the iPad
> this does NOT occur). However, since the Access combo box ALSO allows
> typing, then this cool UI does not appear when I using my wp7 phone and the
> keyboard thus launches and you stay in the browser.
>
> So, my advice is to forgo the nicer UI touch based options. If you really do
> need the cool touch controls then you have to write a native iPad
> application. In fact this is why so many people prefer the native
> Applications such as eBay or YouTube or IMDB move database since then they
> can use mostly gesture based navigation. This results in a far more fluid
> application and likely explains the 18 billion dollars apple making on JUST
> their iPhones and iPads software last year.
>
> So, I do not think you will get anything close to the fluid response of
> these devices using remote desktop software and Access. The smooth scrolling
> would have to be transmitted over the connection, or some special support
> built into RDP.
>
> However, as web standards evolve, I believe in the future that Access web
> will eventually be the best choice in terms of using Access on these types
> of devices due to new emerging web standards.
>
> For now, you have to just design your forms with caution, or build a native
> tablet or phone application.
>
> Albert D. Kallal  (Access MVP)
> Edmonton, Alberta Canada

Mr. Kallal,

Thank you. This information is gold. I haven't fully processed it yet,
but you've set me in the right direction.

-TC

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Thread

Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? TC <existential.philosophy@gmail.com> - 2011-04-05 17:56 -0700
  Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMmkallal@msn.com> - 2011-04-06 03:50 -0600
    Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? TC <existential.philosophy@gmail.com> - 2011-04-06 08:33 -0700
    Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "David-W-Fenton" <NoEmail@SeeSignature.invalid> - 2011-04-06 17:21 +0000
    Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "David-W-Fenton" <NoEmail@SeeSignature.invalid> - 2011-04-06 17:25 +0000
      Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? TC <existential.philosophy@gmail.com> - 2011-04-06 12:51 -0700
        Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? The Frog <mr.frog.to.you@googlemail.com> - 2011-04-07 00:29 -0700
          Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "David-W-Fenton" <NoEmail@SeeSignature.invalid> - 2011-04-09 21:23 +0000
        Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMmkallal@msn.com> - 2011-04-08 11:14 -0600
          Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "David-W-Fenton" <NoEmail@SeeSignature.invalid> - 2011-04-09 21:25 +0000
      Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMmkallal@msn.com> - 2011-04-08 11:11 -0600
      Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMmkallal@msn.com> - 2011-04-08 11:11 -0600
  Re: Are There Good Touch Screen Controls for Access? "James A. Fortune" <CDMAPoster@FortuneJames.com> - 2011-04-06 20:53 -0700

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