Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.glorb.com!news-out.readnews.com!news-xxxfer.readnews.com!news.misty.com!news.iecc.com!nerds-end From: glen herrmannsfeldt Newsgroups: comp.compilers Subject: Re: Have we reached the asymptotic plateau of innovation in programming la Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 05:49:46 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 64 Sender: news@iecc.com Approved: comp.compilers@iecc.com Message-ID: <12-03-026@comp.compilers> References: <12-03-019@comp.compilers> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.iecc.com X-Trace: leila.iecc.com 1331590314 61680 64.57.183.58 (12 Mar 2012 22:11:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@iecc.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:11:54 +0000 (UTC) Keywords: design, history Posted-Date: 12 Mar 2012 18:11:54 EDT X-submission-address: compilers@iecc.com X-moderator-address: compilers-request@iecc.com X-FAQ-and-archives: http://compilers.iecc.com Xref: csiph.com comp.compilers:493 SLK Systems wrote: (snip) > By "significant developments" and "standardizing" I meant that for > programmers to have settled on 1 hardware/OS architecture and 1 > programming language is something new, and good. The time to which you > refer was the wild west of both, with new kids on the block every > year. > Most subsequent languages have copied the C *syntax*. For example, i++ > is now a fairly standard idiom. Certainly fortran is still in wide > use, but who copies its syntax? Well, I guess C did borrow from its > formatted I/O... As I understand it, Fortran introduced the multi-character variable name, pretty much universal in programming languages, but mathematicians haven't caught on yet. > How many Burroughs machines are now in use? Point is that Wintel > overwhelmed all other architectures, not that it invented the system > call. I claim this is a good thing for ease of code portability and > reuse. Many systems have system calls that are similar enough to code around in high-level languages. Things like file name convention differences are also not so hard to work around. > Why is this defacto standarization good? Because AMD can go from > nothing to a huge software base overnight. Because Apple can run > windows software. Because I can read and understand javascript without > having learned it. An if statement is an if statement, but settling on > a singe syntax for it is beneficial. The logical IF seems to work about the same in many languages. The exact syntax varies, such as the need for parentheses and the use of THEN and ELSE keywords. > Not that I am complaining about the variety of programming languages. > Migrating from brand X to C++ or java is what keeps me in business. (snip) > [I'm not sure a software monoculture is an innovation, much less > an interesting one. IBM faced antitrust suits in the 1960s and 70s > in both the US and Europe because their mainframes and OS/360 were > so dominant. And as far as who copies Fortran syntax, every time > you write a=b+c or if(a>b)c=d, or function foo(x,y), you're > writing in Fortran. -John] Well, the arithmetic IF was Fortran original. Logical IF didn't come until later. I believe not until Fortran IV, though I am not so sure what did and didn't come in the different versions of Fortran II. I would have thought that the logical IF came from ALGOL before Fortran. I have "History of Programming Languages" edited by Richard Wexelblat, which might explain some of this. A good reference for the origins of many programming language features. -- glen [You're right about the Algol stuff. Dunno whether Hopper's commercial translator predated Fortran wrt multi-character variables. -John]