Re: Disable FastBoot

From	"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.os.linux, uk.comp.os.linux, alt.comp.microsoft.windows, alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject	Re: Disable FastBoot
Date	2025-11-17 19:58 +0100
Message-ID	<gs7sulxnph.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <sp1epzui11ad$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <nvdrulxiqj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <w9ear4oz5df.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <10ffg4f$7np6$2@solani.org> <13ax9jx16otfe$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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Restoring all groups. Or I will miss some messages to reply to.

On 2025-11-17 18:38, VanguardLH wrote:
> MikeS <mikes@is.invalid> wrote:
>> On 17/11/2025 12:26, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-11-16 03:18, VanguardLH wrote:
>>>>> Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>>>>>> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Win10, 11 have that "FastBoot" thing that mucks with hardware releases
>>>>>>> on "reboot" (win basically goes into hibernate).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No. Reboot is always reboot, Windows would be completely useless without
>>>>>> that. "FastBoot" aka fast startup happens when shutting down if not
>>>>>> disabled. And it's hibernate without hibernating apps so fairly useless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually Fast Starup is a full hibernate (all memory copied into the
>>>>> hyberfil.sys file).  The computer then goes into sleep mode.  When
>>>>> brought out of sleep, the computer resumes from sleep.  If, however, the
>>>>> computer ever lost power during sleep, the computer resumes using the
>>>>> hibernate file.  Because a memory image is reinstated or resumed from a
>>>>> Fast Startup mode, there is no re-initialization of hardware.  This is
>>>>> the same as a Windows restart which is a warm boot.
>>>>
>>>> No, hardware has to be reinitialized "somehow". Hardware has been
>>>> powered off, they have to be put back in the same status as they were
>>>> when the machine hibernated. The driver needs adequate entries to
>>>> restore status.
>>>
>>> It is the lack of initialization of hardware on a FastBoot startup why
>>> hardware that was hung, or in an inoperable state, remains so.  FastBoot
>>> copies a memory image of the kernel and drivers in their state at that
>>> time, and restore those states on startup.  Even if the hardware gets
>>> the CPU reset on a cold boot, FastBoot is going to reinstate its memory
>>> image of the kernel and drivers.  The kernel and drivers are NOT loaded
>>> on a FastBoot.  They are resumed from a saved state.  That the memory
>>> image of states doesn't match hardware state is why FastBoot causes
>>> problems.  When rebooting to attempt troubleshooting, FastBoot can make
>>> the boot-time menu disappear so fast the user has no chance of hitting a
>>> key to get it recognized to go into troubleshooting mode, or make a
>>> selection from a boot menu.
>>
>> A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Here is an accurate description:
>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/kernel/distinguishing-fast-startup-from-wake-from-hibernation

       To distinguish fast startups from wake-from-hibernation,
       kernel-mode device drivers can examine system power IRPs.

...

       If the driver for a device configures the device
       differently depending on whether a cold startup or
       a wake-from-hibernation occurred, this driver should,
       after a fast startup, configure the device as though
       a cold startup occurred. For example, the system-supplied
       NDIS driver disables miniport wake capabilities on a
       fast startup but not on a wake-from-hibernation.


> "2. Next, the power manager sends system power IRPs to device drivers to
>      tell them to prepare their devices to enter hibernation."
>      
> You've never encountered drivers that did not restore state correctly on
> resuming from hybrid hibernate?
> 
> "If the driver for a device configures the device differently depending
> on whether a cold startup or a wake-from-hibernation occurred, this
> driver should, after a fast startup, configure the device as though a
> cold startup occurred."
> 
> Those wonderful "shoulds".
> 
> If there is a power outage during sleep, or during a Windows session,
> how is all this graceful recovery information going to be captured on a
> computer that is instantly dead?

Which is why sleep and hibernation are complicated things. It is not 
just the memory contents that have to be restored, but also all 
hardware, like for example, the video mode. The driver must know how to 
restore, what to do if warm or cold, etc.

The video card has its own registers to program the video mode, which 
are not part of the main memory, and have to be restored in a certain 
sequence.

And the video card memory has to be restored, or recreated.

And the same for all chips and cards.

And of course there can be bugs when multibooting.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 14:39 +0000
  Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-11-15 15:04 +0000
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 15:17 +0000
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any  version) into Ubuntu 24 vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-11-15 16:17 +0000
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 17:19 +0000
          Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 11:56 -0600
  Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-11-15 17:27 +0000
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 17:51 +0000
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-15 23:43 +0200
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 20:18 -0600
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-17 12:14 +0200
          Disable FastBoot  (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-17 06:19 -0600
            Re: Disable FastBoot Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-11-17 16:51 +0000
              Re: Disable FastBoot Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-11-19 11:11 +0200
            Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:24 +0100
              Re: Disable FastBoot Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 04:44 +0000
                Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:08 +0100
          Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-17 07:23 -0500
          Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 01:23 +0100
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 12:36 +0100
          Disable FastBoot (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-17 06:26 -0600
            Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:58 +0100
            Re: Disable FastBoot (was: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 04:47 +0000
              Re: Disable FastBoot "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:32 +0100
                Re: Disable FastBoot Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 07:31 +0000
  Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 11:27 -0600
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 18:00 +0000
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-11-15 20:06 -0600
  Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Simon <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-11-15 19:15 +0000
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-15 23:26 +0000
  Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-15 20:43 +0100
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-11-21 20:41 +0000
  Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 marrgol <marrgol@address.invalid> - 2025-11-15 20:55 +0100
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-15 14:15 -0500
      You have entere...The Time Zone (was: Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any  version) into Ubuntu 24) vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-11-16 17:02 +0000
        Re: You have entere...The Time Zone Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-11-16 12:52 -0500
          Re: You have entered...The Time Zone "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-11-17 12:31 +0100
            Re: You have entered...The Time Zone John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2025-11-17 07:23 -0600
              Re: You have entered...The Time Zone Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-18 00:52 +0000
                Re: You have entered...The Time Zone John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2025-11-17 19:50 -0600
    Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-17 02:42 +0000
      Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 marrgol <marrgol@address.invalid> - 2025-11-17 13:20 +0100
        Re: Strange cabled network fault when rebooting from Windows (any version) into Ubuntu 24 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-11-17 19:58 +0000

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