Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: "hqhy" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 05:51:36 +1000 Lines: 66 Message-ID: References: <13447b7b-2d02-418c-8f04-7b9058c326a2@googlegroups.com> <20150827112351.aeeafdeb4f6ee79ecc2d2d49@eircom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net uZryC0IewbM3nIJDTQ+Apge0oCJ59MoOhsKXKyAHRq8KbTcfo= Cancel-Lock: sha1:Z3ydbFWSZGHyIAqpZA/0AQ82J/w= In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 Xref: csiph.com alt.folklore.computers:150614 wrote in message news:ab6eff4f-4eab-422c-a006-94cfa3a97aa6@googlegroups.com... > On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 9:39:54 AM UTC-4, jmfbahciv wrote: > >> BASIC was used as a first-time-user training tool. Before that FORTRAN >> was used to train kiddies on using heardware and thinking about program >> flow. When BASIC became available on PDP-10s, it was used as breaking >> in newbies instead of FORTRAN. I/O, both disk and TTY, was simpler >> to teach than FORTRAN. > > BASIC was a lot easier to learn than FORTRAN. > IMHO, using Fortran required a good understanding of algebra. It doesn't require any more of an understanding of algebra than Basic does. The IO is different but doesn't require any understanding of algebra. Operating on text data is harder in Fortran but doesn't require any understanding of algebra at all to do that. > Typically, compsci and math folks had that, but other students could be > rather weak in it. > For instance, Fortran required knowing about integer and > real variables which could be confusing to non-math types. In practice you can just ignore integer types completely if you want. > BASIC was more flexible with formulas. Nope. > As mentioned, I/O in Fortran required a FORMAT > statement, which was not required in BASIC. Yes, but that has nothing to do with algebra. > Also, BASIC was typically accessed via a Teletype. Only early on. > While there were some Fortran Teletype accessed > systems, in many cases (most?) Fortran was > accessed via a batch program via punched cards. Nothing like most with minis. > That meant students had to learn a k/p machine, Its actually harder to learn how to use a teletype. > assemble a deck with JCL, Students just used canned JCL. > and wait for results. That is mangling batch and online systems. Yes, Basic was much more common with online systems, particularly with minis as opposed to mainframes, but much of the Fortran was done on minis just like with Basic.